No: 5 Leader: If a man rapes a woman and gloats over it in jail and says he would do it again, does the woman have to forgive him.

Thread ID: 4 At 5/6/2008 6:16:42 AM Bill Sockey '75 wrote:

Christ forgave His murderers, even as they gloated over Him and evidently were of such a mind that they would have done it again.

It's difficult, but with God's grace everything good can be done.

When, in the Lord's Prayer, we ask God to forgive us as we forgive others we don't put conditions on forgiveness.

For men this may seem impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Faithfully,

Bill
Thread ID: 9 At 5/13/2008 7:10:55 AM Bill Sockey wrote:

Remember that St. Maria Goretti also forgave her murderer as he was in the act of murdering her for refusing to give in to his advances.

Forgiveness of a sinner who repents is one thing, forgiving an unrepentant sinner is even greater. But what forgiveness means in the second case is the desire that the sinner not be punished but brought by grace to repentance, i.e., we don't seek revenge but the salvation of the sinner.
Thread ID: 10 At 5/13/2008 7:38:28 AM Alistair wrote:

Bill,

I've often wondered about this passage. Your thoughts?

Revelation 6:9-11

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

Alistair

Thread ID: 11 At 5/13/2008 11:12:52 AM Bill Sockey wrote:

Alistair,

The Bible tells us "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord".

We are commanded to love our enemies. This means to will them good, as hate is to will evil. Loving one's enemy means to will him to receive grace and be saved, regardless of what he may have done to us. It would have been a greater thing if Hitler or Stalin had repented and been saved than if they were cast into hell according to the merits of their evil deeds.

The martyrs in heaven thirst after justice, which means punishment on the enemies of Christ, but this doesn't contradict their greater thirst after mercy, which means God turning the hearts of evil men to repentence and salvation.

While they still live, the most evil men are able to repent and be saved. However, once it is all over God will punish the unrepentant sinners in hell for all eternity.

Bill

Thread ID: 12 At 5/19/2008 9:04:14 PM gds wrote:

It is much easier to forgive a rapist than to forgive yourself for being in that situation.

Did the church, in canonizing St. Maria Goretti, indicate that women should accept death over rape? If so, in all cases? If not, where is the line drawn?
Thread ID: 13 At 5/20/2008 6:26:53 AM Bill Sockey wrote:

Saints are canonized for heroic virtue, virtue above and beyond what is required.

As Christians we know that death is not the greatest evil. For the martyr, a short time in pain issues into everlasting joy greater than anything possible on earth.

The Church does not teach that we are obliged to give up our lives rather than allow someone else to commit sin. To do so would be heroic, but not required.

So Maria Goretti was canonized for showing heroic virtue. We should all strive for that, but it isn't required.

--Bill
Thread ID: 16 At 8/5/2008 4:26:18 PM Alistair wrote:

Dr. Augros posted his answer today, August 5, 2008.




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